Episode 1 - "I want to give myself a chance"

Welcome to Cambs Cops: Our Stories, the podcast series that delves into the force’s unheard stories, covers the news that you want to hear and explores the issues that matter to you. Here's what's coming up in this episode.

From day one I think Ian identified that, you know, he definitely didn't want to go back to prison, he didn't want to go back into the criminal justice system, so I think that's a starting point for any officer in the team.

I've gone months of doing nothing it's not what I want any more, I want to give myself a chance, you know if you treat it with respect and you use it for what it's for use for then they'll support you more.

What was the turning point for you, was there a was there a turning point where you thought this is not for me? You know I know I've got that support I know I've got you know which I haven't had before.

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Okay thank you for joining us then James and Ian, much appreciate you coming in and speaking to us. Um first of all, start with you James, um tell us about your team and your role and what you do.

So my name is James Beacham, I'm a police constable based in the team in um Thorpe Wood in Peterborough, um our primary role is to work with offenders who are either inside or outside of prison um and with the ultimate aim to rehabilitate and support, um in both settings uh working with various agencies such as probation social care and other service providers.

Um we work with a set pool of uh like say um offenders um and we help them meet them and look what the needs are and then we kind of tail an approach to um to look at addressing those those needs.

Yeah and what is your role within that team and what does a typical day look like for you?

So my role is um I've got obviously the contact details of all the people I work with so I would um on a Monday morning uh look at our systems to see if there's been any kind of obvious issues over the weekend or when we haven't been working so if we come off a set of rest days we will look at um if any of our guys or ladies that we work with have had any issues or any crimes been raised in that respect.Um and we'll make contact we will make contact with the probation service as well to see um what their the kind of the diaries are looking like and when the people are actually in um in their probation appointments.

Okay and how did Ian first come across your radar?

So Ian um was referred to me by Essex probation where he is or he was he was based prior to coming here um here come out of offer prison sentence um the latter stages of last year and he'd gone to the approved premises in Peterborough um so Ian then obviously was referred to Cambridgeshire IOM and we would link in so I linked in with Ian via Essex probation um met with Ian in an initial meeting at the proof premises um and we kind of then started working together. So I initially sat down with Ian and saw what is and spoke with I and identified what needs he actually had, he was in Peterborough and we formalized a kind of like an action plan of what we would do to help address him and staying out of the criminal justice system.

Okay and um turning to you Ian, um tell us about your life before you came to Cambridgeshire and before you got involved in this in this process.

Um my life was chaotic, you know, I was addicted to substances, um I had problems with anger and you know I was a lost child really. You know, but um it was unmanageable and as I say I went to prison you know um but my prison sentence wasn't just like oh you get one sentence, it was up to 22 years and then a life sentence after that you know, but it was um unmanageable.

So what was that, why did you go to prison, what was the offence, sentence?

I grew up on the streets at 13 uh run away from home and um I used, I stole to eat and crime to prevent uh you know to get back money and violence to protect myself but not become some sort, it was just a long spiral went on and on and on. Then I started you know involving myself in criminality, putting lorries through cash and carry walls and things like that. Uh robbery was second to none with me, you know, and um when I finished the sentence or five years before the sentence I started doing things to kind of bring myself away from it, give myself a fighting chance. So when I did meet this team that's when things started to change for me but yeah.

And what are your thoughts now, on looking back at that time in Essex?

Well I mean look, you know, mine's London I was only in Essex when I was on the run, you know a few years ago uh but um my main ground was London all through London but um I don't know I wish I didn't do the things I did I growing up, being someone that I wasn't if you understand, so you know when you when you realize that you do have the potential like I'm several years into a degree now, criminology, and you know you grow up thinking you're not able to do this, you're not good enough to do it but when you do start getting it the help that's given, that's when things start to change here, you know because you got your own potential to do it. If you can do it, you can do, it if you can't you can't but yeah.

And how long was that prison sentence that you got?

Oh I was doing 22 years. I finished that, I was at month two months and then and I've got a life sentence over 8 years so it's 30 years. I was away really really yeah deserved every day of it, believe me.

Okay what was that what was the crime that you?

Robbery that was robbery.

Okay yeah yeah and that was in London was it?

All over the country, yeah.

Was it, okay, and um what was the turning point for you, was there a was there a turning point where you thought this is not for me?

Yeah I was in a prison called Wakefield I've been sent there from um Whitemoor, uh me and a few others, uh because of problems we was having with a religious thing, I'm Jewish and it’s nothing I had problems just because who I was, you know, and uh I ended up in Whitefield and then I woke up one morning and I was I going to take me own life or take someone own's life that's the truth of it. It's stark as it is and then I you know I started reading you know psychology and things started to connect with me, you know, yeah and it was um I don't know, it was it was if that's what my life was leading to, you know.

Yeah and how old were you then?

Uh oh this was uh I'm 57 now and this was 8 years ago, years ago seven years 7, 8 years ago yeah yeah.

And your view of the police must have changed I assume?

I've grown up anti authority you know and that's my because of the relationship my father was a London fireman you know the authority, he was very strict and things like that, and I rebelled against it, uh abuse and god knows what, but um yeah it's not good none of it yeah.

And what does the future look like for you now?

Look I'm on the right track at the moment and this is the longest I've been out of prison in in 40 years, you know, and the fact that I can manage do day to day without doing something wrong you know is good but I've gone months of doing nothing, you know, I just it's not what I want anymore I want to give myself a chance you know yeah.

And is that is there family as well or well?

There is and there isn't, I've got a lot of down west but um because of my conditions and things like at the moment and my medication, I couldn't really get down at the moment so, but things are starting to come together and it's a dream, not a dream, it's a wish, I want you know so it will happen it's just I’m going with it the um meeting, the surroundings of my life as it is at the moment so.

That's great, that's good to hear, um just back to you James, um tell us about the approach that you took with Ian when he first obviously came across when he first came to uh Cambridgeshire.

So I think with most of the people I work with, it's very important to be transparent, so you kind of set when you first meet that person you set the boundaries and you set the expectations from myself to them and also their themselves to myself um so you know, I think honesty and transparency is the key so during our initial meeting together we kind of spoke about what we expected and what Ian could expect from the team that we uh that you know that we work within. Um and I think with that it's that that we kind of built on that that initial meeting where we could you know have kind of full and frank conversations and I think Ian built a trust in us. I think it's fair saying you know you found it sometimes difficult with authority to build trust.

You know as we're saying about my relationship with the police it's been a bad one, you know, I've not had good experience you know but a lot of that was because of me you know you know it's not because of what they done or the police or individual done it was you know it's system it's authority, you know, that's what you're against you know and I don't know you know I don't see that anymore, so I think that was the key that was the key you know that I think by building that trust and you could start working in a meaningful manner with people, Ian and other members of the community, um and once that kind of that that trust barrier disappeared and Ian could work with us I think that's when we started to do some meaningful work.

Um Ian's got involved in various projects um which are run by partnership agencies um he's actively looked at getting his own accommodation, which he has done and he been successful in doing so, um so you know I think to be fair to in he he's done a lot of this himself because I think he's got that stage in his life yeah where he's kind of reached the crossroads and we've just supported him along that that journey.

When you, when he first came across your desk, um did you have a success, likelihood of success, that you thought immediately and then how did that change as you spoke to him?

I think I from the from day one I think Ian identified that you know he definitely didn’t want to go back to prison, he didn't want to go back into the criminal justice system, so I think that's a starting point for any officer in the team. Um and it's something we could we could look to, you know build towards and Ian identified areas in his life that he'd like to focus on and address to improve himself um and that's what we kind of kind of tailored towards um we tailored our approach in, you know, getting in support in certain areas such as housing, um such as kind of debt management, um but other things he was doing himself. So you know it was kind of it was a bit of a hand and glove kind of concept that I was doing stuff himself but we just kind of tapped into that as well yeah.

But it's knowing that you've got someone to ask for support and you know which is an oxymoron with my life and you and I think that's vital in itself isn't it? Yeah I mean you know so you know I don't know if you remember the time when I was on the phone in town and you went beep do you need to lift? I'm think I'm on the phone going oh it's the OIM, it’s the police what do I do, do I get in the back of a police car? But no I don't care, blues and twos, I just don't care got nothing to hide anymore, you know, that's not the person I you know that's not the person I want to be.

Is this a change from seeing police as someone who wants to lock you up someone who's actually going to help you?

Well obviously I mean as you grow up in life you know met you as a child and coming up your you're probably labour meant like the labour type of view but as you get older you become more conservative and you realize significant things and you realize significant your own um behaviours and that, you know, so and how you treat the people is how you want them to treat you, don't you, so you know but um it's different to a prison um and prison officer relationship you know where it is to the police out here but you know I don't know I was a bit um I was a bit anxious at first of all because it's police when they said I thought what's this what's this? But then, you know, what if you play with it yeah you know you're going to get burnt, you know, but if you treat it with respect and you use it for what it's for use for then you they'll support more.

So I think for myself, personally, a successful moment came when Ian actually rang me and he said you know I've had a bit of a wobble, been an issue and the first person he actually rang was myself to try and get that kind of support and get him back on track, so I think that itself for you know success, trust, you know.

I mean yeah respect is something that you earn, you could lose it very quickly, isn't it, but you know so you know that relationship has prospered you know and I can benefit other people now by saying look you know this has got nothing to do with what you're doing or when you're doing it, this is about you and now, you know and that's the benefit of this this process you know helping others so yeah.

And was Ian a typical case or was he an exception?

Um I think it's fair to say Ian is quite an exceptional case um with his background, history and his previous convictions um is quite substantial but um nevertheless I think you know Ian’s got a lot to that. We can work with you, yeah um and he's and he's proved that he wants to work with us as well as you know improve himself so yeah I can't fault with him with his engagement.

Yeah and did you learn anything from the from the experience?

Well I know I have but I don't know about you.

He’s not, you know, such a miserable person you know.

But uh yeah for me you know it's I don't know if I find myself in a position that would be um an excuse to use or a justification say sod it or whatever, you know in nice words, then you know I know I've got that support. I know I've got you now which I haven't had before but the people I did have were likeminded with me so you know there's nothing there's never going to be a chance by asking them people it's still going to be the same circle isn't it, but by having the faith and saying look, you know, I'm stuck in the problem or you know can you can you help me with this you know. But if you haven't got that, you can't miss it but when you have got it and you realize the advantage of it you're going to miss it when it's gone you know so. So sorry no I all I was going to say is that you know I can't fault it.

So if you could reverse time and go back and say anything to your younger self, anything at all what would it be?

I'll probably be a policeman right because of the way I see crime through crime through my eyes you know and I perceive things because of you know. I think that I'd make a good policeman I would have done so.

If you could do it again you would police officer?

Yeah yeah I was born for one thing and the other I couldn't get in the army because I’m deaf in one ear uh but that would have been the making or breaking of me. But I think you know as it is now yeah I certainly wouldn't return.

Just finally um what's your view now on the work James and his colleagues do?

Um to turn people's lives around obviously as we said earlier it's not your stereotypical policing where you're locking people up, it's more prevention isn't it, well yeah prevention isn't it prevention is better than cure and it's just a shame the system hasn't grabbed on to that prior but I think personally you know I don't know how big the teams are, but you know there's not enough of them and the use of them should be in my opinion um broadened to uh other people instead of being identified for certain offenders, you know, there's many people out there that have still got the same problems you know that are not as hardcore but would you have a better success rate with the ones if you catch them a bit younger? But that's money and funding so but uh yeah, it would help funding that's all.

Yeah okay well thank you so much for joining us particularly you Ian thank you for taking the time.

No problem thank you very much for having me.

Thank you.

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