Episode 2 - Eyes in the sky

Speaker 1

Welcome to Cambs Cops Our Stories, the podcast series that delves into the Unseen World of policing. In this episode we'll be discussing the force's work to prevent violence against women and girls. This is a priority area for the force and has involved a long-term Behaviour change campaign and several educational projects. This includes training CCTV operators, taxi drivers, door staff and businesses in spotting the signs of predatory behaviour. It was this training that led CCTV operators to call police to the aid of a woman who was in distress in Peterborough last year after recognizing the signs of a predatory man. A warning at the start of this episode that it involves discussions around sexual assaults.

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Speaker 2

Well thank you for joining me to today to talk about violence against women and girls, CCTV operators, how they help the police and a specific case that combines the two. Would you mind by starting by introducing yourselves and where you work?

Speaker 3

Shall I go first? Yeah of course so DC Chris Enright, of Thorpe Wood police station, I work currently in CID.

Speaker 4

I'm DS Luis Scott I'm currently in SCT on C relief.

Speaker 2

Perfect, so I believe it was last year where you were working together on a specific case that happened in Peterborough. Would you mind just taking me through that case and how what you guys did on it?

Speaker 3

Yeah okay so it was April 22 so the incident was a lone female so for the purpose of this we obviously won't reveal her real name so we'll call her Debbie, so Debbie had been out in a venue in Peterborough it was in the early hours so around sort of 2.30am/ 3am and she had come out of a venue alone her friends had gone and she was highly intoxicated so at that time, the CCTV operator had actually picked her up so she was on camera alone because what sort of stirred the operator's concern was two males from a relatively short distance away constantly staring and one in particular was sort of overly staring. He then approaches her, starts talking to her and then sort of before we know it the CCTV shows she's up against a lamp post almost being held and then this this man puts his T-shirt over her head trapping her arms almost imagine like the fetal position but the upper half where he decides to seriously sexually assault her and that goes on for close to a minute, where he puts his hands inside the front of her leggings he then releases her. As she pushes him away she tries to stagger away he comes up behind her again and pins her up again against a like a green like a telephone electric box where the sexual assault continues he pins her up from behind and does something very similar. While all this is going on, the CCTV operator is already informed our control room and uniformed officers are on their way on an emergency response. And then the sexual assault continues where he, as she tries to walk away again, he basically forces are into her corner up against a brick wall where she can't get out at all and she's trapped up against a bin and and

he then goes to pull down her trousers. So she manages to push herself away again and just as she manages to get into a taxi the police turn up straight away and immediately detain the male. So yeah that was the case so unfortunately Debbie was so intoxicated she didn't remember a thing about it, so was taken back to a home address that night by officers so forensics in terms of her clothing was seized she gave her sort of a brief first account it was only until the next morning when that's when I took over as the officer in charge of the case that I don't think she still knew the sort of the enormity of what had actually happened to her.

Speaker 4

Okay yeah so I remember actually the day that it we had the conversation about it I was working on a different shift and I remember walking up the corridor and Chris was reviewing the evidence after the interview and I think a decision had been made that he was going to be bailed at that point and we had a look at the footage and I think we both kind of looked at each other and we just said he can't be bailed. We need to push for this one just from the footage that when obviously Chris explaining it doesn't really, the severity of it is quite yeah absolutely quite graphic to watch yeah and I'll bet you can't see what he is doing underneath her clothing is very evident and quite force forceful. We had one look at it and like I said we looked at each other and we said you can't be remanded and Chris straight away was happy to stay on he'd already worked his full shift at that point and he was happy to stay on as long as it took just to get this guy put away off the streets and rightly so. That was the first little hurdle but yeah as I said I can't praise Chris enough he was just ready to go and crack on with the job and did a fantastic one at that but yeah nasty job.

Speaker 3

We felt so strongly with the footage that had happened how serious it was that there was no other option but we needed to charge him for him to be remanded in custody and which he was and he was remanded at court.

Speaker 2

And what happened at court?

Speaker 3

So after being remanded he then went to his first hearing and he actually pleaded guilty.

Speaker 2

And was given a jail sentence I believe?

Speaker 3

Yes so there was some further work done around whether there was any further offences there were no in the end no forensic opportunities to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that penetration had occurred so the charge and the conviction for sexual assault remained and he received a year in prison.

Speaker 2

I think that sort of just shows the value of the CCTV operator in the in initial instance because obviously while police try to be everywhere, they can't be everywhere and they need those eyes so how valuable are they to police?

Speaker 3

They're crucial.

Speaker 4

Yeah massively I mean with this investigation it was from the moment she left the club yeah the location where she started she came out onto the street she walked down it was a bit quite a walk from where she was to and the camera was situated on the corner wasn't it so she was walking towards the camera as soon as she came out and it caught from the moment she come out to when she he was arrested we saw absolutely everything. And that was a massive benefit to us because there was complete continuity, there was no questions raised, you know we have these hurdles with CPS whereby if the camera pans the left we don't know what is going on at that point you know is she they having some form of conversation, we don't know what's being said or what's going on. But the fact we saw absolutely everything there was no discrepancy, there was no question as to what was going on and it helped massively. Albeit there was still hurdles, we were able to get over those but it just in relation to the CCTV operators they obviously had some concern for this female and again it's a massive help to us in that they're able to recognize that and keep an eye on her so that if something does happen, we're able to get those convictions and use it. Yeah it has a massive impact on the case just having that footage.

Speaker 3

Absolutely and unfortunately even though that time of night there were still members of the public around there were say taxis driving past and no one actually stopped to do anything and it was the intuition and I think experience of that CCTV operator I believe is had been doing their job for quite a while they have that experience to pick up almost a vibe of something's not quite right with this person here I think I'm just going to just monitor that person for their safety and thank God that that operator did because God knows what would have happened to to Debbie if that hadn't had happened yeah I dread to think.

Speaker 4

Like we were saying that there was no other cause and I think just some advice for people out and about and obviously bearing in mind the time of night obviously other people may have been out intoxicated they may not have understood or really seen what was going on at that point. But there was, in my mind, there was a few moments within the footage where she is quite clearly pushing him away and is not happy with what's going on when he first kind of approaches her in the street and there were people walking past at that stage and like I say no other phone calls. No there was no no one approached no one went to see if everything was okay. I suppose from a member of the public walking past might think they were a couple they're having some kind of spat in the street and they just leave them to it because I suppose for someone that doesn't know these people and doesn't know what's going on. It can be hard for some people I suppose to walk up to complete strangers and say is everything okay because they probably expect to be met with some form of hostility or you know if they're quite noticeably drunk they might be some form of further argument, there might be yeah violence or aggression on may move on to them but yeah it's massively important if people do see something that they're concerned about even if they don't approach or they don't want to go and get involved from a distance just call us and raise a concern because we'll come and  check it out and we'll make sure everything's okay.

Speaker 2

Yeah that's and you know even if they don't call it straight away you know there's other people bouncers and things like that people in the night time economy who have that responsibility as well to help. So in terms of the CCTV operators, who are they because they're not police officers are they?

Speaker 3

No so I know they work or have or they possibly are connected to the council I believe every sort of town and city has that I guess that that's how they operate so at that time, that particular operator yeah I believe he'd worked doing his job for many years. Yes so they're not officers they're not they're not trained but I know that's something that has been brought in like you said earlier the police can't be everywhere but if more and more people from partner agencies have awareness of concerns for sort of safety of members of the public it's not just about women but the main focus has been violence against women and girls nationally which is obviously not helped with other things  happening in the media and say other police forces and that's why almost everyone has their role so not just CCV operators, I know there's thing other things going on with shops and businesses where their the government and forces are working with those um companies to have almost like a representative in in those locations to say if someone comes in asking for help about what to do or what to look out for if there's a customer in that shop that is um possibly in trouble um they they need sort of speaking to privately or the signs to look out for.

Speaker 2

Yeah for sure yeah exactly like I said there obviously violence against women and girls is a is a force priority as well as a national one and there's obviously lots of work going on on how we tackle that obviously this you know the night-time economy and that is quite a crucial part and everyone has their sort of part to play including sort of the members of the public. What would your sort of advice be to someone who does see something or maybe isn't quite sure maybe it's not as overt as pushing but what sort of signs can they look out for do you think?

Speaker 4

I suppose there's a common sense approach around it and that if someone looks in distress or if they you know the facial expressions their body language if they're actively trying to get someone away from them, maybe like I said earlier they don't feel like they can get involved and obviously there is you know safety comes first and that involve that includes you know that that individual safety, you know if they're going to put themselves in danger I would suggest not approaching but maybe calling  us from a distance being able to keep eyes on the situation to be able to tell us what is going on before we arrive at the scene. We have you know we have various other things we can do now we have what we call we have GoodSam so we can send a link to that individual's phone we can then  stream what's going on they can just point their phone camera at the situation and we can we  can record everything so we can see what they're seeing at that moment in time but again these are things that just members of the public may not be aware of unless we're on the phone when they speak to the call Handler they would let them know at the time, it's not something that someone on  the street would say oh I'm going to call up get GoodSam Link and start streaming this. It's I would suggest that if someone looks in destress and you're concerned if you have any concerns call it in because if it's nothing at least we've then checked and we can confirm it's nothing, I'd rather someone call something in that comes to nothing than ignore it and it is something because that's when things are going to go wrong.

Speaker 2

For sure okay. Is there anything else you'd like to add?

Speaker 3

Okay so my advice to anyone would be about going out, just making sure that you keep yourself safe. I know that as an organization we're going into businesses and also with the nighttime economy and making awareness for say these businesses organizations about awareness of if anyone needs any help anything that any signs that someone has come to a shop or a business either distressed or not and someone needs help um like covertly, then there are representatives of these businesses and locations that will that will help you and they're being trained to identify those problems and those risks and signs of members of the public and I think hopefully things will change and women will be able to have the confidence to feel safer in the streets and to contact the police and other organizations and partner organizations to ask for help and to be uh to be trusted and believed.

Speaker 2

Yeah, you mentioned there the business is against abuse and that's some training that we've been delivering over the last few months at the moment north of the county but it will be extended to the whole county and you can find list of the businesses who have received the training our website and it's interesting you sort of talk about there because some things can be quite sort of seem low level but they do usually and have a be a precursor to you know escalations of behaviour so I guess it's that sort of seeing you know with that sort of predatory behaviour and stopping it before it goes anywhere.

Speaker 4

Absolutely, definitely. 100% and unfortunately there are people out there that do go out to these places with the pure intent to find these vulnerable people and to take advantage of them. We've seen it in many investigations where you CCTV of individuals within the club looking for these vulnerable people be male female whoever and you can just take a split second. Like with spiking head can turn there something in the drink and that's that and it can be so quick and so dangerous but like Chris said the advice he gave is spot on um just hopefully and if you just make those little changes and just look out for each other.

Speaker 1

Thank you for listening to Cambs Cops Our Stories. If you or someone you know has been affected by the issues raised in this episode help and support is available for more information visit the force's website www.cambs.police.uk

 

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