The law has changed

Speaker 1 (00:00)

Hello. And welcome to another episode of Cambs Cops: Our Stories, a warning at the start of this podcast, that it features content only suitable for adults and contains descriptions of abuse, which some listeners may find upsetting. Today we are joined by Janet Cameron who is being supported during the interview by the officer who investigated her case. Janet is a survivor of historical sexual abuse who has bravely waved her anonymity and spoken out on her battle for justice. 32 years after being raped and being told by police, there was nothing that could be done.

Speaker 2 (00:34):

We're here today to talk about quite a few different things, but I guess it would be helpful if people know your story.

Speaker 3 (00:42):

Start from the very beginning of how I was at 17/16. I met Colin at, uh, 17. I got engaged. I got married to him a week after I was 18. In those days. Didn't realise what grooming was because you didn't have Facebook. You didn't have, you know, the television and stuff like that. Then I'd already been hit by him when I was engaged to him. But by that time I was already thinking he was the one and everything. And then after we were married, um, the beating got worse and the controlling got worse. I wasn't allowed to, uh, answer the telephone. My mum was never allowed around the house. It was like one day when I cooked the Sunday dinner, a roast. Yeah. And uh, because I cooked the wrong Sunday dinner, the roast shouldn't have the beef, he threw everything all over the living room and went out and uh, went to the pub and quite blatantly told everybody that he'd just given me something to think about.

Speaker 3 (01:51):

Everybody was scared of him. Absolutely petrified him. So there was, I could do nobody to help me. So then I had Claire, my first baby, and that is one of the beatings that I really got was um, when I was 12 weeks pregnant, I'd been out with my mom and my sister and my sister was staying with us and we came back from being out a night out. It was a pub and everything just kicked off. He kicked the table all over us because I was half an hour late and my mom should have brought me home and I was 12 weeks pregnant. My sister went to the phone box, rang my mom. She pick, they picked her up. They begged me to go, but I was too scared to go because I knew he would follow and they would be in danger. So I stayed and that's when, um, I got beaten, beaten very, very badly was still took up boots, trying to kick me in the stomach and everything ripped my clothes off.

Speaker 3 (02:55):

And he actually did go down to my mom's house and smash their window in. I tried to ring them to warn them. He was on the way. Then he came back and then I managed to run out the house. And I, and I rang my mom and said, no, you have to pick one o'clock in the morning. I was down at the doctor's surgery. Seeing if the baby was right as it was, the baby was right. I had, and then she was rushed to Great Ormand Street Hospital. And she died at 10 days. When we were on way down there, he said not to cry had otherwise he wouldn't take me to see her. So it's, I always learned not to cry, to hide everything, stop crying. So I stopped crying and I had to act normal, went to the hospital. She made shut down all the machines and she died in my arms.

Speaker 3 (03:53):

And the worst thing of that is, is that they cleaned her all up, put her in a bed and gave her a little yellow flower to hold. And then the nurse came in and said, right, you can go and see her to say goodbye. And, uh, I was told, Nope, we're not going in. You won't her you'll start crying again. And I was like, no, I won't. No won't I just wanna say Nope to the hospital. And all I had was a tiny little Polaroid photograph of her. And he still managed to keep that. I never, I never have got that back. So that is that's it. And then what the cruelest thing, what he did then was said, oh, we're gonna pop in and see my sister. And, uh, she just had a baby. So I walked in to a baby and a bouncer in a bedroom after my daughter's just died. So yeah. So that's the control that is control. You know, that he has had over me, then there was other, there was other beatings and, you know, being kicked and everything like that. And controlling of like, I had a pair of sandals, my only sandals and he wouldn't let and more shoes and they were held together with cell.

Speaker 3 (05:11):

You just learn to live you to get help. And nowadays, if you go to the doctor, won't even let you leave that doctor's surgery without phoning the police or social services and getting you out. But in those days, right, he was my husband and he was allowed to do what he wanted to me. There was no law for, against your husband. So that is how it was. And I had to live with that deal, with that. I had Chloe go. And, uh, then Chloe was one years old colon. I split up and, uh, I managed to like leave and get away. And, uh, and I had Chloe like kept my mom's. And uh, one day he asked me and said, I want meet up with you at the pub at Greystones at the pub. And I wanna talk about Chloe. So we talked, we went in and always remember there was a carpet sale on, in those days they did carpet sales and we went into the pub.

Speaker 3 (06:22):

Then I said, I need to go home. Now I'm going home. And uh, he said, I'll drive you. And I said, no, no, it's I'll I'll. And he went, I'll drive you. Right. And he started to get, and I knew what was gonna be coming. And that would be very embarrassing in front of everybody in the pub, you know? So I knew to calm, I, the I of turning left to my moms. He turned right and sped off, like about our hell all around the country, roads locked the car, leaned over, locked the car, and then said, if you try, if you try to escape, he said, you'll kill yourself. And I knew if I tried to open the door and jump out, I would've, I would've been dead. And he drove and, uh, he was driving and driving and took us to near, um, is it, uh, swell to this clearing on these crossroads?

Speaker 3 (07:26):

I always remember. And that's where I was raped. Cause I knew I had to do what he told me to do and everything. I won't go into details and that's where I was raped. And the only way I could think about getting out, it was by saying, I need to go the, I knew the pub. I need the, so he said about, can we just go up there so I can go to the toilet? And so we pulled in and then I said to him, I need to ring my mom. My mom's got Chloe. I said, she's gonna be wondering where I, and this was my trying to get out, trying to get contact with people. So, um, he let me like ring my mom, but he was standing in the phone box, right beside me listening in. And he said, tell your mom, we've got back together.

Speaker 3 (08:29):

So my mom's on the phone. And I said, mom, I've got back together with Colin. All she could do was go, oh no, oh no, Janet, what you're doing, what you're doing. And uh, she wasn't even thinking, and she's still to this day, cannot remember me saying help. And that's when he shut the phone down and he went, don't ever do that again. He says, no, one's coming to help you. He says, I'm gonna keep you for a few days. He says, and then I'm gonna decide what I'm gonna do with you. So I knew I knew there, and then this is it. This is, this is it. I, you know, in his eyes, everything, his just whole demeanour, everything. This, this is totally, totally right. I'm on my own here. I've got, I'm gotta escape or I'm right. So I, I knew it. So I said, I still need to I'm trying think, think you, and so we went into the pub and made sure where the was that we sat here and I'm sure he I'm sure he sat there so he could see the door.

Speaker 3 (09:41):

And I had to sit there and then, um, he said, you can go up and get a, and then he wanted to go and gets and they by the front door. And I know at that time, there were sure there was a machine by the front door. So I made the move to go to the bar and I stood at the bar and I went, please find the police, please find the police. And the bar went when there's a phone box over the road. And then at that time, Colin came straight in going, what's going on? Nothing, nothing. Nothing's going on. Nothing's going on? What do you want to drink? Or do you want to drink? And the Barman's looking at me like, I'm crazy. You know, there's this young 20, 20 year old girl there nearly 21, you know, like in an absolute, they must have seen that I was petrified, absolutely petrified.

Speaker 3 (10:31):

But in those days, people just didn't know all about, about this. And uh, I think the pub landlord can remember all of this Connie. So yeah. He gave a statement, didn't he? Yeah. So what happened was, is we went back down to sit and have our drink. And then I thought, right, this is, this is it. I've, this is I've gotta make my move. So what I did is I left my handbag there just because if I took my handbag with me that would've given a signal, so I left my handbag and I said, I need to go. You go. He said, it's he checked all the toilets. The only out here is there. There's no way you can get out the toilets. He, so on you go.

Speaker 3 (11:19):

My only way of escape was, as I got around to the side of the bar, the toilets were down the corridor there. I went on my hands and knees and I crawled behind the barman behind the bar, stood up and ran. I think I ran through a kitchen, ran out a back door and there was a car there, tried the door handles and it opened, got in the car, slammed all, everything down and hid in the back, stair in the back foot. Well, and just hid. And that just absolutely hid the next minute. There's banging on the windows, what's going on, what's going on? And I was just petrified. Then all I heard was the screeching of a car on gravel and everything and just screeching away. And then this guy saying to me, he's gone, he's gone. And then I got out the car and they took me upstairs.

Speaker 3 (12:15):

Cause I was just in shock, absolute shock. And that's when, like I went, I went home and that was it. And then, um, I was like, didn't know what to do. It was gonna believe me. I've already been to the doctors about beatings, everything. Um, so I just had a bath and that was it. I, you know, I had to keep myself and then I think it was about, it was April the, it was 17th and mom and dad were really good friends of, we used to go for Sunday dinner and everything and to help her, oh my God. And they said, Colin is the last person to be seen with her. And I went, oh no, no. And I just knew and I went, she's gonna be dead. I said, if she's not, he's keeping somewhere. And that's when I told happened to, I said should have been me. I said, if it was me, I said, she'd still be alive. It should have been, it should have been me. You know? So I've lived with that for all years.

Speaker 4 (14:03):

Sorry.

Speaker 3 (14:05):

We can't anything. Cause he's your husband.

Speaker 3 (14:12):

So, so yeah. So, so I did give all my statements. Two policemen came, took all my statements. Everything apparently gave four statements. Cause you block everything out. I can only remember giving one full, full statement, but now when I'm told things, come back, they do come back to you. You know, when the police come back again to you and ask you questions and everything. So, so yeah. So, um, and um, pleased and came down to me and said, um, she's still missing. And he said, um, we've been up to the house. And I went, oh, I said, he'll be so cool, calm and collected. I said he could do something right in front. You and make you think that he didn't do it. You'll actually believe he didn't do it. Even though he did it right in front of you. And, and this policeman said to me, don't Janet.

Speaker 3 (15:14):

He was a bit too cool, calm and collected. I went, he's got her. He was the, with her. He says, we know he was the last person with her, because he was seen in the pub, her that pub pop with a, and it was her birthday and she didn't look very happy. She was 17 years old for God sake. It was her 17th birthday. And then I think the next day that's when he disappeared, totally disappeared off the face of the earth. Um, and eventually it was an off duty policeman in Gilford, saw him in a car and then gave, they go chase. And apparently it was a high speed chase, all around Gilford. And when he got caught, he went, ah, he says, if I'd had my gun, this would've been a different, different matter. So he was admitting to having a gun. I knew he had a gun, but he told me it was broken.

Speaker 3 (16:08):

It was just, that was just, you know, he just had it there. I didn't realise. And I just believed what obviously what, what you told, you know, I'm not gonna rock the boat to get another beat. So, so yeah, that was seven days later. I'd been, and, and to where he dumped his, it was it. And then I woke up on my 21st birthday and put the on and there was him being taken into hunting and old court under a blanket and everything. So that was my first and my aren't good anyway, because my died on my seventh birthday. So my birthdays are no, no luck for me. I hate my birth taster. So yeah. And what was result at court with lean, with lean? Um, he tried to plead not, he was pleading, not ING and, but he was, he was certified as was like, said schizophrenic.

Speaker 3 (17:14):

I, I can't remember the other words. All I know. I remember the judge saying you're not mad. Cause he tried to pull off that he was that he was crazy trying to get the, he said, you're not mad. He said, you are just, and you need, need to go away. And he got, um, life in life in prison, but in prison he still tried to, well, he tried to escape. There was all escapes and everything. He was gonna escape. And then after 32 years in two 18, he got out on, on parole. Didn't me. And I was given the phone call and got out on parole. And once again, I told my story to this lovely police lady and said, yeah, he shouldn't be out. He's gonna do it to somebody else. He did it to me, but what he did to Leon and she said, what do you mainly did it to you?

Speaker 3 (18:08):

And I said, well, I gave all my statements and everything. And that's when she, I said that nothing can be done because he was my husband. And she said, no, Janet, no, Janet, this can, something can be done. The laws changed. Something can be done. And that's when we started our two year ups and downs and ups and downs and me totally up and down and not knowing where I was, whether I was coming or going, still trying to hold down a job full time, trying not to show people at work, how it was affecting me. My confidence. I was a nervous wreck. I mean, I used to feel sick going into work. I knew I was doing phone calls, interviews, trying to keep that sort of away from work and not get into trouble at work for being on the phone. And cause they didn't understand what this meant to me.

Speaker 3 (19:02):

This is such a big thing and what it means to do this. And it is, it was so, so hard, but you were, you were totally by my side and at least once a week, you would say to me, Janet, we can stop this. We can stop this. And I went, no, Nope. I said, I don't care how hard it gets. I do not care if we can get justice and I can get justice. Right. I said, this is what I want to do. So we had to do all this on the quiet while he was on parole. Didn't we? And we were trying to, we did it all on the quiet while he was on parole. No, not letting him get an inkling because we dunno what he would've done to me. That was hard work going back through, going do, do the video interviews with you that opened up boxes and boxes and boxes that I had literally myself blocked away in the back of my brain.

Speaker 3 (20:02):

I mean, I was still what people call jumpy, Janet, you know? And like somebody would just lift a hand and I still do it to this day, but not as bad, not as bad now. And I also, if you notice, I don't say sorry, every other word, I don't have to say sorry to anybody. Right. And that's all I ever used to say was sorry, sorry. Sorry. Cause it always felt I had to apologise for myself if I'd walked a lamppost, I say sorry to the lamps, but yeah. So did all that. That was really hard. That was really, really hard to open all those boxes and come out. But then you did all the hard work. You found all the statements. My medical records, I released to you all my medical records. You said Janet, your medical records are absolutely brilliant, cuz it's amazing what the doctors write.

Speaker 3 (21:05):

Once you leave that room, I've never seen them. I don't actually wanna go back and don't go back and see them and all the injuries and everything. Remember that, that last time when I managed to was one of the worst times where, when he got telephone and everything to go around my neck and bashed my head off the wall, that hard that it actually felt like my head was hit in a pillow and I had all the strangulation marks around. And the one thing I feel guilty about is I tried to escape and I ran out the back door. But now when I think about it, I left Chloe upstairs and I a court asleep, but just self preservation comes over you. Cause if I'm not there, who's she gonna have. And then he carried me in and said, you're never leaving me. And then the next day the health visitor came round and night.

Speaker 3 (22:02):

I'd forgotten that I'd missed and appointment. He'd gone out the back door to go on his bike. She pulled up as he'd gone out the back, she was walking up the pathway through the front door. As he came around the corner, he saw her coming up. He about turned as I opened the door, he barged in the back door. What's going on? What do you want? And then she saw the fear in me. She said, and she saw the marks on my neck and she thought quick on her feet. And she went, oh, hello, Colin. I'm just here to, to Janet that she appointment with health. Janet, can you come tomorrow? You know? And he went, I'll bring her. So he took me down. He was in the waiting roomed pretended to take Chloe in. And that's when the doctors had to strip off really quick.

Speaker 3 (22:55):

All the bruises, everything, everything was recorded. And then the nurse came and knocked on the door. And when you need to hurry up, he's getting restless. I think he's gonna come and barge in. So it was me quickly getting dressed. And I had to go back home with him. And then I rang her and said, I wanna leave. She went right. I'm ringing the police. And she rang the police and everything, but they were up the road. I was down the road. They couldn't see the house. I, he went out and said, I've gotta pop out. And I took, this says, I've gotta go. Now I grabbed Chloe ran over to my friend's house whose cottage is next to the pub, barged in there to Jane, right where the police are anything. And he came back and he then apparently was running around. I didn't see, it was running around the village with a crossbow going into the shop, going into the pub with this crossbow in his hand and eventually came to James and he is like, I wanna speak to Janet.

Speaker 3 (24:00):

I wanna speak to Janet. And she, she was like, she's not here. She's not here. And that's when he started smashing all the windows and her little boy was running around. I think he was three or four at the time. Chloe was, she was just a year old. And the people in the pub heard the commotion. And what I did is I went and hid in a gas, covered in a toilet. And then I heard this banging on the toilet window going Janet, Janet. And I literally saw these hands. I saw these hands through the window and I just passed. I didn't even know who I was handing Chloe to. I just passed Chloe straight to these hands. And they jumped the fence. They went into the pub while he was occupied, smashing windows, trying to get to me. They drove, they drove Chloe just outta the village and took her away.

Speaker 3 (24:51):

And then that's when the police came and Elaine, Elaine Paul came. Um, and then it was just all a whirlwind. And then the police came to me and said, right. We've we've took him away. He's in the cells. Um, we're keeping him overnight to let him calm down. You can get whatever you want out the house to leave. Not we're gonna charge him. We're gonna do this. We're gonna do that because he was my husband. He was cast as a man of the house I had to, I had to leave. So I had to get caught down everything and I left and that was it. And then that was when the rape happened two weeks later. And then that's when, um, he got murdered,

Speaker 2 (25:36):

I suppose it was a different experience with the police back in the eighties. How did you find it this time around?

Speaker 3 (25:42):

Absolutely. Absolutely amazing. And don't get me wrong. I think I know, because I think you told me that the policeman who took my statements, they did it in so much detail. And so professionally, even though they knew they couldn't do anything, I think maybe hoping in years time, like what happened, the law can change. And I'll just wanna say to people out there, if there's any, any women or men, cuz men are abused as well, right? If you were raped, beaten, abused in any way and you managed to go to your doctors and your doctors wrote it and that's all you need, all you need. Or you managed to the police, came to your house, it will be recorded. It will be recorded in, in archives somewhere. If it takes the police that they've got to go down to London like you and go through the archives, then that's what, that's what they will do. Cuz that's what you did. You had one day didn't you, you had one day, that's all you were allowed and you,

Speaker 2 (26:58):

The video interviews just in case people don't know, what do they involve

Speaker 3 (27:03):

That yeah. That I did you that involves first of all, making you feel comfortable. Nice cup of coffee. Yeah. You let me go out for a ciggy and explain in the room. And it's a nice comfort sofa. And just explain in the room where the microphones are, where the cameras are. Cuz I think there was a couple of cameras and I know there was a couple of microphones and that I could say stop at any time. And that you showed me the room next door, where it was, the screens were where it was all recorded. So totally I knew I could stop it at any point. I was, I was in control so I could stop it at any time I wanted to, but I just wanted to do it. I had that, that gut in me and that like, I'm not strong person, but you know, this has given me strength and this is why I want do this because I want help other people.

Speaker 3 (28:10):

I want them to pick up the phone, right. Or if they can't pick up the, just go the doctor or to somebody at work just to somebody, to somebody and somebody else will take on that and know what to do. If you dunno what to do yourself in a lot of places at work, HR, people nowadays are trained in seeing differences in people and that, um, and they are trained, not highly trained but trained. So if you have a HR department in your work and that's where you are away from your abusive partner, cuz they know you are at work and they know where you are, you go there, you ask for help, ask somebody for help and you will get help there. And then you won't be like sent home or whatever, unless you say, well I've reported it and I wanna see what I'm gonna go back. But, but if it's a historical, if you're still with this person, you know, it could still be going on in a different kind, in a different way. You know, it's verbal abuse. It's my abuse was verbal. My abuse was taking all my rights away. I wasn't allowed to do anything. All my rights were taken away. You know, even answering the door or when my mom used to ring, I I'd say who was that? Cause he would answer the phone. Oh, just told her you weren't here.

Speaker 5 (29:50):

Some people are concerned as well that once they report to police, they're left in the dark and dunno what's going on. What was your experience?

Speaker 3 (29:58):

No, I was kept in. They're kept in the loop by you all the time. Although cuz mine can be different cuz I'm not living with the person, but you will always find a way of contacting that person without the partner or the abuser being there, whether it be at work or through a friend, you know, or a parent. Whereas if there's a certain day you go to visit your mom and your dad, you know, you can, you can, um, get a, a, a diary of the, the times and days where, you know, you know, you are gonna be on your own where, you know, and that's when you will accommodate them. They don't have to accommodate you. You accommodated me, you know? And if I said, oh, I can't make it that day or whatever, but it is different if you are in that abusive relationship now it's, it's, it's different. But I just wanna say to anybody out there, if this happened to you, you know, all those years, doesn't matter. How many years ago go and talk to somebody, go and talk to somebody or I'm sure there's, there's a helpline number that they can phone and you will treat them with the utmost respect, not just them off and they will be listened to and you take the steps from there to actually get justice. Like what? I got justice.

Speaker 2 (31:37):

So let's about that. What was the end result for your

Speaker 3 (31:39):

Case? The end result for my case was the CPS. We charged him with rape and threes rapes and he was charged with that. And I, he was absolutely shocked because the evidence laid out in of there's just no way he could say not guilty. And I know, I think you said as he walked out the room, he said to the person he was with, I'm just gonna have to plead guilty. By that time you see he'd gone against his parole conditions himself. Cuz we were going to the CPS to have him put back in prison again before we went to trial. But he got, he put himself back in prison. Cause I remember getting the phone call going, Janet is back inside because he went against all his parole conditions and he was going to do it again because I know he was grooming a vulnerable and I know he was back the underground then.

Speaker 3 (32:57):

And then, uh, we went to court, which I didn't get to cause it was, I didn't get to videos, wouldn't work, but I got him just because he changed his name by Paul to Martin Cooper. I called him and he could hear me call in hill. He's not a different man. Although he is Martin Cooper, he's still the same man and he's hill. And he got different sentences for charges, but they were to run concurrent and the judge gave him seven years and he's got five of those. Cause he served 32 years in prison. One of the longest serving in prison CLA is one of the most dangerous men to come out. That was why he was on the map meetings every month to discuss him. And I was kept in the loop with that as what was being death discussed in the map meetings. So that's how you kept me in the loop all the way through as well. And now if he comes up for parole, I can give a victim's statement. And uh, but I don't think he's gonna get out again. Cuz I think if he does get out, he'll go right back. He's he had his chance one chance after 32 years to prove that he changed, he's still a psychopath

Speaker 2 (34:25):

And that was something at court as well that you were given the chance to do a victim impact statement. How did you feel about being given the opportunity to do something like that?

Speaker 3 (34:34):

That was, that was nerve-wracking. Cause it was very difficult to know what to say. You helped. I just talked and he helped me with it, but it was so hard to know what to say, cuz I didn't want to be weak. I didn't want to sound weak to him cuz I knew he could hear me and I didn't want to sound weak cuz then he's one. But I won and I was the strong one. I wanted him to sit there and I hope he was sitting now wish I could have seen his face still to this day. Wish I could have him face to face. Cause that's what I wanted face to face. And to actually say back to him, maybe what he actually said to me one time paybacks are a bitch, Janet. And I really wanted to say that to him paybacks or a bitch calling, but I knew I wasn't allowed to in court, I wouldn't have done it, but that in my heart hearts is what I wanted to say. But I won and I got counselling that helped so so much. And I didn't even need the full six weeks of counselling and that, and I said, no, I'm fine. And she said, Janet, she said, I can't believe the change in you from when it first talked to you to how you are now for everything is just lifted. Totally lifted. Yeah. I'm a different person. I feel different. Got that big in again.

Speaker 2 (36:06):

So even though the police process was difficult, are you glad you chose to do it?

Speaker 3 (36:11):

Yeah, I wouldn't change a thing. I would not change a thing. I do it all over again. Knowing how difficult it was, knowing how hard it was, knowing how tight to face people. Um, and still carry on my day to day life and try and work as well. Not letting people see how much I was hurting inside how scared I was inside. Cuz that would've affected my job. So I had to go to work. I would break down when I came home, as you know, I think few phone calls. <laugh> me in tears. You know?

Speaker 2 (36:53):

So I guess what are the other things you'd like to encourage people to do? If they can.

Speaker 3 (36:58):

I would like them to, to, to actually go and speak to somebody. Right? Let people know. Okay. Because somebody who's abused actually really hides it very, very, very well. Right. And the person who's, the abuser can be so nice. But behind closed doors, it's a different person. You never ever know what's behind closed, closed doors. And I always say, cause people always looked at me and judged me by my cover. Right. Cause I put out, tried to be strong and I will always say don't ever judge a book by its cover because people out there do not know what I went through. Do not know how I felt day to day. Do not know how I struggled with all my emotions. Do not know how for two years, this absolutely petrified me of trying to work, trying to be upbeat for my kids and my grandchildren.

Speaker 1 (39:41):

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